Discussion Topics« Return to Discussion Forums
Did you know about Guilde?
I am in the process of renewing my insurance and I thought I would give Guilde a try. I own Bootcamp Bendigo and I am also one of the senior Instructors for the Bootcamp course Motivate to train run.
Fitness Australia recommend Guilde so I thought "why not?"
Good thing I rang..................
Did you know ANY Bootcamp activity is NOT covered by Guilde?
This means ropes, Kettlebells, Sand bags, and any things else they would consider military.
"Surely if you are using a rope for a distance run just to keep you team together holding it low would be covered" I asked.
Nope this is thought to be military.
Now I don't know about most of you outdoor trainers but I am a professional and I run non militaristic Bootcamps. But looks like I need to stay with Marsh..
Pays to ask the hard questions before you pay the money.
Does Fitness Australia know this as they highly recommend them?
Replies to this Topic
I have talked to Guild and Fitness Australia about this topic. They told me that once I had completed the CEC all i had to do was let them know and it would be fine. Let me know how you go as I am just about to start a boot camp of my own!
Sent via Groupsite Mobile.
Thanks for the heads up, just about to choose an insurer and you certainly helped my decision making process !!! Cut it form two down to one, essentially.
Seems ridiculous for Fitness Australia to recommend them when they do not cover such basic personal training methods . . . I think it goes to show where their target audience is . . . namely being gyms and gym staff.
Oh well, maybe one day they will all catch up with the changes in the industry . . .
As I said, thanks for the heads up.
Thanks for the feedback Mic. I am discussing this very issue with Guild at our weekly meeting tomorrow and can assure you there is plenty of work being done to ensure every individual registered professionals' needs are catered for under this industry leading insurance program.
It is worth noting that the standard professional insurance policy covers you for your Scope of Practice. This is defined by what you qualified for in your vocational training & what you have achieved in CEC approved programs since. There are approved programs available for trainers seeking to undertake this style of training.
One reason "military training" is being identified by Guild as a flag at application that needs to be followed up is that some trainers are conducting exercise programs well outside the scope of the Certificate IV in Fitness or any approved CEC program and expecting it to be covered under the standard insurance policy. In some cases these activities have included overnight hikes and other activities more in keeping with outdoor recreation than fitness as defined by scope of practice.
In an effort to create a more accurate risk profile that keeps insurance premiums down for all registered exercise professionals Guild prefers to investigate the specific needs of each professional that highlights these type of activities.
Enhancing your scope of practice through continuing education, as mentioned by Ryan above, is the best way to broaden and deepen how your Guild insurance policy will protect you. No other insurer can offer that.
I have asked Guild to respond to me about your specific enquiry so if there is other information you wish to provide then please send me a direct message.
We aim to provide the very best industry support services as representatives of Fitness Australia and through our partners and without feedback like this we can not ensure we are doing the very best job possible. Thanks for taking the time to share it publicly and I trust we are able to provide you the support your business needs to thrive.
Thanks for the clarification Rob, and Mic makes some very interesting and valid points on what is considered to be Military training in an insurers eyes. My centre has kettebells, battle ropes, tyres, sledge hammers ect available for use that some may consider to be "military type" training. It can also be argued that cross-fit exercise was borne out of the military as well, so is it to be considered outside of scope? I also use all of these techniques and equipment in my boot camps as well so I am glad I have that specific endorsement with my current insurer.
Certainly there are also those that just use the name "boot camp" to glorify their outdoor training (happening here in my town at the moment) with no real specific training or experience and I would assume that they are not covered?
However, I am too considering changing insurers after my current one tripled my policy cost with no explanation at all! I have an application form from Guild that I have not completed yet and it would be appreciated if you could post the results from your meeting with them.
One problem I have found is that it is very hard to get a product disclosure statement from Fitness Insurers. A PDS would probably have helped significantly for Mic and it would also allow for direct comparison of insurers. Can you ask Guild if they have a PDS please.
I think for peace of mind I would like to see a specific section dedicated in the policy outlining the definitation of scope of practice and what the requirements are to be covered by that scope. Better to have that now that try to argue that in court over in injury claim.
Mic, by now you will have received a voicemail message from a Guild representative (Michael McNally) who will work to clarify the situation as you can be assured the activities you describe in your post are covered by Guild. Return his call and together you will find the cover from Guild to be not only superior to other products on the market bu their efforts to provide high level customer service also an advantage.
Jason, if you would like to pass on your direct details to me I can ensure a Guild representative works with you on a business insurance program suitable to your needs. There is a very good description of the policy cover for fitness businesses on their website which I am sure will be helpful. I will ask them about how they handle PDS requests.
It is also worth noting there are two products available from Guild - one for registered exercise professionals and a second program for fitness businesses so the complete package will cover all needs.
Again, valuable feedback direct from the industry to us, as your industry association, is very valuable so thanks for taking the time to post.
Ryan, I did mention to the girl on the phone that I was a senior instructor for the guys that run the courses for Fitness Australia for the accreditation (so therefore I am training well within my scope of expertise) but all she was concerned about was the military aspect of the use of "tools".
Rob can you please email me direct or drop a line to this post so we can all get a clearer understanding of what will be covered.
If I can't get Bootcamp coverage and I am one of the trainers that run the CEC courses, then who can?
I also agree with Jason.. We all see Crossfit and we all train Crossfit with the use of the above products.
Looking forward to the response.
Leading the way in the Bootcamp industry.
PS if the scope of practise is within the CEC course then the insurance company will need to sit in on a course to get a better understanding on what is being delivered.
The MTT course dedicates the entire level 1 course on safety and control.
Just one more quick reminder.
One problem the course providers have (as I have just recently found out here) is that we can run the best, safest course in the world and really push all the good things e know to ensure all the trainers who attend the courses are fully covered and full accredited but, I have seen a few trainers do some really really dangerous activities that only put their clients in greave danger.
So where does that leave the insurance company and the course provider?
Mic, that question may be better posted in a separate discussion to get into the detail. It again applies to Scope of Practice. If the trainer was educated in a particular exercise discipline and executed it poorly resulting in a claim being made against them, then the investigation would seek to determine if the trainer executed their role outside of their Scope of Practice; or, neglected to follow the guidelines/standards for that exercise that they were taught or known as the standard.
We will look to publish information in our REPs magazine and website on this topic now I know it is of interest. Our ongoing work in creating risk management tools for use by registered exercise professionals will assist with mitigating the risks of such actions in the future to stay tuned for announcements in this regard through the rest of 2012.
With Bootcamp Bendigo not being a Fitness AUS registered business the Guild customer service representative may have been confused by your request - not understanding if you were talking about insurance for you personally or for your business.
The "Bootcamp" flag applies to registered exercise professional insurance application, not business insurance. Guild will always follow up with any REP that ticks that box to seek further clarification and if in that clarification you describe activities well outside the Scope of Practice then Guild has the option to not confer insurance cover on you.
Some insurers will insure anything and charge a premium for it. Guild works in partnership with Fitness Australia to keep the risk profile of our industry and your professional low to ensure premiums remain low for everyone for as long as possible.
Guild has contacted you Mic, and will contact you too Jason, to help.
I don't think the girl on the phone was confuse Rob. I exclaimed to her that I own Bootcamp Bendigo and my insurance was up for renewal. I will call to find out what the story is after reading all the posts. Seems as though every one is in the same boat.
Stay tuned for my in depth reply.. I will ask all the hard questions to make it easier for the next person.
Those who have staff working for them (it would seem by Robs last comment) wouldn't be covered? Is this what your saying Rob?
One more thing Rob.. Does this mean I need to spend $700 to become recognised as a business professional with Fitness Australia before they will cover me?
Well the phone call was productive.
Apparently Guild will cover Bootcamp training but only the stuff that fitness professionals do.
All the good things we teach in the courses are covered. The things that don't seem to be covered are the crazy things you see the others do.
If you decide to go either way make sure you ask the question about the need to be a registered business professional with Fitness Australia ($700+) or if they will cover you as a sole trader. Lets face it most of us are small businesses that work for ourselves.
Michael was the guy I spoke with and he was very helpful and he assured me that Guild will be having a team meeting today to specifically discuss Bootcamps and alike to ensure this miscommunication doesn't happen again.
I'm just waiting for a confirmation email to make this stick.
Registration as an Exercise Professional is $220 inc GST for two years.
Registration as a Sole Trading Professional (ideal for self employed trainers) is $440 inc GST for two years and this includes your registration as a professional. Call 1300 211 311 if you think this is for you.
Registration as a Fitness Business (ie. Pty Ltd companies or businesses with employees) is $715 inc GST for one year.
Thanks Mic and Rob for the leg work on this. I spoke with Michael from Guild and he seems like he is willing to work with us to find the best solutiuon. He also acknowledged that it's a learning process for them as well and it's refreshing to see an insurer willing to take on board information from the industry.
I am sending in my info today and will be interested to see how it all compares.
Thanks again for raising the issue Mic and Rob for taking the time to respond and liase with Guild.
I recently contacted Guild Insurance to renew my Business Insurance and duly completed all the necessary paperwork etc and sent this off for a quote. I was shocked to receive a quote which was $800 more than the exact same cover that Marsh quoted for. As much as I would like to support FA preferred providers, $800 increase was too big an increase so its Marsh for another 12months.
That interesting Maria. When I spoke to Michael he gave me an over the phone quote very similar to Marsh.
I agree $800 is certainly a big jump from the one I received and certainly too big to change.
Perhaps call them again and ask for Michael to set it right.
Jason: no problems. I like things to be fair and equal across the board.
It would seem as though FA is a bit biased towards Guild and not sure why? There are only 2 companies in which they endorse but they aren't talking about Marsh as much as they used to.
Maybe Robert can shed some light on this?
Follow the link for the reason why.
One thing we have learned is that valuing an insurance company by the cost of the premium only is not a valid way to do business. Yes, it makes a difference however you are rarely comparing apples with apples.
Some of the other things to consider include:
ü Guild is 100% Australian owned and operated
ü Guild is the actual insurer (not a broker)
ü One Insurer, One policy, One premium
ü Guild have offices in all states of Australia (except NT, which is catered for via South Australia office)
ü Guild has local Customer Service Executives who are able to provide face to face service
ü Tailored insurance to suit the individual business insurance requirements of the Fitness centre/Studio
ü All liability claims handled and controlled by Guild Insurance
ü 24/7 access to claims advice and support
ü Meridian Lawyers (part of the Guild Group) attend to liability claims
ü Policy includes "Lifetime Runoff Cover" (for those either retiring or leaving the profession) at no additional cost
ü Guild Insurance has a formal partnership agreement with FA, where amongst other things; they provide sponsorship, marketing and payment of referral fees to FA
ü Guild and FA meet weekly to continue to improve on the overall offering and ensure that cover continually reflects the intended scope of practice for FA registrants
I'm sure Marsh would offer a very similar product to Guild.
I however, am still trying to decide.
I tried to complete the online form for Guild and the second I clicked the button to say I was running Bootcamps a dialogue box came up and said......
"Regrettably we cannot provide cover for your clients participation in this activity due to the high risk of injury, however we may be able to provide cover for your other activities as an Exercise Professional."
This would still suggest to me that even after my great phone call with Michael (top bloke) they haven't changed their site as yet to provide such cover for the outdoor professional.
Could someone from Guild please change the site so we can all have the same opportunity.
Marsh still are the only ones so far that will cover your outdoor bootcamps (once your accredited) without any hurdles.
Australian Fitness Network also distributes a policy for Personal Trainers which covers Boot Camps and all other related activities provided you have a suitable qualification that has taught you the required skills. The policy can be purchased online and is only $99.95 per 12 months however, you do need to be a member of AFN to purchase. Please note this policy is designed for the individual trainer, not a studio or health club. All trainers who are teaching the Boot Camp would need their own individual policy.
Australian Fitness Network is an authorised representative of Gallagher Australia.